Quarter 3 Post 5 (2017/2018) - Russian Romantic Music and Tchaikovsky The Russian Five were not trained musicians and rejected the idea of learning music. They composed what they felt was true, not what was accepted by the European musical world. They also composed with the voice of the people. Their music was based off of folk melodies and was used to deliberately stir a feeling of pride in their traditions and ancestry. I largely respect the Russian Five's opinion about European music, in that music should not be strictly learned and should be true to its origins. The Russian Five composed what they believed was true music, which I respect. However, their disdain for European music was a little too extreme. They believed that Rimsky-Korsakov betrayed them by teaching at a conservatory. However, teaching at a conservatory does not intrinsically betray music, as the Five believed, so long as Rimsky-Korsakov did not betray his style or musical beliefs in order to teach at the conservatory. As long as he held onto his roots and his style, teaching at a conservatory is not inauthentic.
Tchaikovsky didn't have any formal musical training as a young child, like the Five, but went to conservatory in his 20s, and became connected to western music. Tchaikovsky was very emotional and had musical and melodic ideas inside his head, which is a huge strength as a composer, but a nightmare as a person. While devastating to Tchaikovsky, his horrible emotional state made his work extremely passionate and allowed him to be a very romantic composer in the western sense, while also incorporating Russian musical ideas. Nadezdha von Meck was very important to Tchaikovsky and probably allowed for him to continue composing. Without her, Tchaikovsky may not have written nearly as much as he did. I wish that more people with lots of money would use their money like von Meck. It is very difficult for creative people to focus on their passions without a steady source of income, since their work is intrinsically not steady. Some years, a composer may write many great works, while others, they may not write any. After learning about Tchaikovsky and his influences, it is important for us to pay attention to both the very romantic, emotional melodies and to the classical form.
Quarter 3 Post 5 (2017/2018) - Russian Romantic Music and Tchaikovsky Compared to European composers, the Russian Five wanted to embrace culture rather than structure and a more elite form of education. Incorporating folk music into nationalist pieces makes music more accessible and representative of an individual or entire group of people, tapping into certain ideas and struggles that may have otherwise been ignored by someone focused solely on musical form. I feel as though I would rather be a Russian composer at this time, as those like the Five would have encouraged a focus on personal emotion and cultural ties to create truly impactful and meaningful work, no matter the formal education or honed technical skill. Making music in this way, it seems, has potential to hold more weight than simply having a strong grasp on classical structure or music theory, as it represents people’s own truths and voices. It becomes more than just a composition; it becomes expression in its most honest form.
Tchaikovsky, although extremely troubled, was really a fascinating composer, considering how he was able to create so many iconic pieces of music while, and even because of, struggling with his own personal issues. He actually had a formal education combined with a natural talent for music, which was unlike the Russian Five, who had a more spontaneous dedication to composing and playing music. He was able to integrate both the more nationalist values of the Five with the more structured and classic education of the conservatories, as well as with his own emotions, which really helped him to create extremely powerful and memorable pieces. If Tchaikovsky had been in a less hostile environment and therefore able to be more open with his homosexuality, I think that although he would have felt far freer and comfortable, his music would have suffered to some degree. It would probably hold less weight, as he would no longer have to express his own pain and inner turmoil through his music. Instead of hiding all of his emotion within his music, he could have reached out to people, greatly reducing his anxiety and fear of observance in doing so. Really, it seems that the strength of his music comes from the intense emotions distilled into it, which would most likely have not made it in were he not confined by society at the time.
Quarter 3 Post 5 (2017/2018) - Russian Romantic Music and Tchaikovsky The Five were non conformist to the european ideas of composition which lead their music having more diversity. The Five were so influenced by the Russian folk music infused with nationalism.They called their music the ‘Truth’ of Russia which held a lot of those tunes and the people’s nationalist ideas while also rejecting many traditons and costumes. I think both schools of thought are reasonable and am not exactly sure why there was mutual hatred between the Five and the conservatoryists. I mean if Rimsky-Korsakov didn’t want to stick with the others’ non conformist veiws on conservatory and go teach at one thats fine but its then toatlly reasonable for his friends to feel hurt and betrayed.
I would have rather been a russian composer. I am not a creative person and being able to work with the already created musical ideas found in russian folk music sounds a lot less daughting than any attempt to write a wholly origanal work. Both types appear to have been very connected in supportive community which is surprising but nicely so. It also sems that the people are more acepting of newer ideas within the music in Russia which makes the occupation less risky.
Tchaikovsky was trained in a conservatory unlike the anti consavatory Mighty Five who had little to no training as composers. Aside from education he also was talented and trained from a young age and started composing at 14. He became a great composer with very defined passionate melodies. His passion is his biggest weakness. He was volitile, he had crippling anxiety that was hightened becasue of his paranoia that people would discover he was homosexual. These fears come out in his works and arguably makes them better as it was the only way Tchaikovsky could express himeself. If he were comfortabe being out he would have been less anxious but I think his music would have suffered for it. His music is dominated by his emotions mostly of fear and anger so I think he proabbly would have been happier so his music would have been different but not necissarily less good.
I think knowing he had the support of Nadezdha von Meck Tchaikovsky kept himeself togther. As bad as it sounds I think he proabbly would have destroyed himself long before he did if he didn’t know he had a pattron’s support, especailly one that didn’t require him to be the social creature he wasn’t. If I had someone give me money to do whatever with I would probably spend some time traveling and learning other languages because I think thats very rewarding. Mostly I would sew a lot more than I do though, I might open up a small shop of exquisite fabrics and be a seamstress.
Quarter 3 Post 4 (2017/2018) - Romantic Music Overview and Hector Berlioz I like the format of this a lot, it is interesting and allows us to stop and look something up we don’t understand or google it if we want to learn more about without holding everyone up. I also like how many superhero refferances you through in there.
A lot of these little snapshots into the composers are surprising. For example, Brahams was intimated by Beethoven which makes sense but I never realized he avoided writing symphonies until the end of his carreer. Also, The idea that they didn’t very have conductors is mind blowing at first but the fact that Beethoven is really the first composer to write such lyrically diverse lines in multitude justifys that after him is when the preformers realy need someone in control to lead them. Franz Liszt, I know nothing save his name but it's nice to hear that he was like Michael Jackson in fame and invented the recital. I always associated that with Handle. In addition, I had no idea Schumann ran a journal and critiqued everyone. I don’t usually associate writing as a skill among composers but Schumunn aprrently wanted to be writer before he wanted to be a pianist which explains his journal a bit more. He went insane and ended up in a padded cell which is intriguing but more so is the fact that committed himeself. I think hearing more about Schumann would be very interesting as he is by far the most surpriing and captivating composer you mentioaned of handedly.
Hector Berlioz seems rather crazed due to his passion and emotive expressions. The programatic idea is interesting becasue now that is almost the norm. The Fantastic Smyphony of him stalking Hariet Smithson is faguely creepy but we all need to give him points though becasue they do get married but also think of how many musical motifs and variations of theme we have in music now that are similar to this. Pagannini’s support of Berlioz is really interesting, it illustrates how all these people knew eachotehr and were friends. Its wonderful, they would have the most beuatifully disfunctional dinner parties.
Quarter 3 Post 4 (2017/2018) - Romantic Music Overview and Hector Berlioz I like the format of this a lot, it is interesting and allows us to stop and look something up we don’t understand or google it if we want to learn more about without holding everyone up. I also like how many superhero refferances you through in there.
A lot of these little snapshots into the composers are surprising. For example, Brahams was intimated by Beethoven which makes sense but I never realized he avoided writing symphonies until the end of his carreer. Also, The idea that they didn’t very have conductors is mind blowing at first but the fact that Beethoven is really the first composer to write such lyrically diverse lines in multitude justifys that after him is when the preformers realy need someone in control to lead them. Franz Liszt, I know nothing save his name but it's nice to hear that he was like Michael Jackson in fame and invented the recital. I always associated that with Handle. In addition, I had no idea Schumann ran a journal and critiqued everyone. I don’t usually associate writing as a skill among composers but Schumunn aprrently wanted to be writer before he wanted to be a pianist which explains his journal a bit more. He went insane and ended up in a padded cell which is intriguing but more so is the fact that committed himeself. I think hearing more about Schumann would be very interesting as he is by far the most surpriing and captivating composer you mentioaned of handedly.
Hector Berlioz seems rather crazed due to his passion and emotive expressions. The programatic idea is interesting becasue now that is almost the norm. The Fantastic Smyphony of him stalking Hariet Smithson is faguely creepy but we all need to give him points though becasue they do get married but also think of how many musical motifs and variations of theme we have in music now that are similar to this. Pagannini’s support of Berlioz is really interesting, it illustrates how all these people knew eachotehr and were friends. Its wonderful, they would have the most beuatifully disfunctional dinner parties.
Quarter 3 Post 5 (2017/2018) - Russian Romantic Music and Tchaikovsky I think that the difference between nationalistic music and non-nationalist music - the purposeful use of folk music - opens up a really interesting conversation about how music relates to national pride and love for one's country. Before watching the video, I guess I really didn't associate folk music with nationalism; I thought of sweeping orchestras and impressive solo singers, singing songs like The Star-Spangled Banner or America The Beautiful. However, it makes sense that "nationalistic" music would be music like folk music which is spread from person to person, passed down through generations, played all over a country, and is overall more culturally relevant than a song that is written by one person and doesn't necessarily represent that country's musical style.
I'm impressed that the Russian 5 were all dabblers, with footholds in other industries, yet they made such impressive and important music. However, I think that I would have preferred making music in Europe rather than Russia at that time period. Although all five composers were certainly creative and made great music, it feels like their music was locked into a nationalistic trend. Whatever music they made, it had to be in honor and support of Russia. While there was nationalistic music being made in European countries too, their music wasn't necessarily trapped into being a love letter to a country, and European composers were more free to be open and expressive with ideas other than just national pride.
The conservatories highlighted this divide. This is why I take to Tchaikovsky's music more than the other Russian composers: he was part of the conservatory world, and did not see Russia as higher than or more influential than the rest of the musical world. He wasn't restricted to ideas of Russian nationalism (although he did use folk music and his music was absolutely Russian, but he was influenced by other places as well and was more open to other musical ideas), and his freedom to be more expressive with a range of ideas shows in his music.
I think there were forces in Tchaikovsky's life that encouraged him to be more creative and expressive, but also forces that restricted him and maybe clouded his passion. Nadezdha von Meck funding him allowed him grander scope with his projects. I have so many creative ideas that I'd explore if I had someone funding me like that. Tchaikovsky's expression was also probably hindered by that fact that he was a closeted gay man. If he had been allowed to be open and free, his music may have been more open and free as well. Other social hurdles like nervousness could also have influenced his music.
Quarter 3 Post 5 (2017/2018) - Russian Romantic Music and Tchaikovsky Russian Romantic Music: It was interesting to learn about the Russian 5, because I have never herd about them. I think that it is pretty cool that they had other jobs and were still able to focus on music too. From what I have herd, if you were into music and wanted to compose it, that was your job, they didn't have other jobs. Also it is interesting that none if them really had a whole ton of musical background. It was different that they didn't follow what a regular composer back then did, and they started a group and worked on stuff together. I think I would have wanted to have been a composer in Russia at the time, because then maybe I would have had the chance to see the Russian 5.
Tchaikovsky: I like learning about Tchaikovsky because he has an interesting story and had a lot going on in his life. It is interesting to me, that even though he was gay, he got married to a lady. I think that it is cool that Nadezdha von Meck gave him money and helped to support him, but I thought it was weird that she did not want to meet him. If I was giving money to someone to help them, I would want to meet them. But I guess it worked out for Tchaikovsky because he was not very social and wanted to be alone. I like knowing now all of this background information and being able to play serenade for strings. Its cool that we can know where it is coming from, and the background of it all.
Quarter 3 Post 5 (2017/2018) - Russian Romantic Music and Tchaikovsky I am very interested in the stylistic differences from the Russian 5 versus the more contemporary western music of the time, and how that difference was created. It is crazy to think that 5 men with no substantial training in music helped if not created a complete style of music, whereas a lot of European music had only to build off and change the music from the later years, the russian 5 basically only had their nationalistic ideas and somehow were able to create something new from that. That idea amazes me and really makes me want to learn more about them, cause even if they weren't the most amazing musicians of their times, they still were able to do something that changed an entire countries musical identity. As for tchaikovsky I enjoy his story very much, but find it hard to become attracted to his music because i am so enamored by is private life. something has to be said for taking the artist away from the music, because having listened to the music while also knowing the man, I get something different out of it, versus if I were listening to it without knowing his backstory. In a sense i think the crazyness that makes his backstory so appealing makes it harder for me to listen to the music with an unbiased lense.
Quarter 3 Post 5 (2017/2018) - Russian Romantic Music and Tchaikovsky I am very interested in the stylistic differences from the Russian 5 versus the more contemporary western music of the time, and how that difference was created. It is crazy to think that 5 men with no substantial training in music helped if not created a complete style of music, whereas a lot of European music had only to build off and change the music from the later years, the russian 5 basically only had their nationalistic ideas and somehow were able to create something new from that. That idea amazes me and really makes me want to learn more about them, cause even if they weren't the most amazing musicians of their times, they still were able to do something that changed an entire countries musical identity. As for tchaikovsky I enjoy his story very much, but find it hard to become attracted to his music because i am so enamored by is private life. something has to be said for taking the artist away from the music, because having listened to the music while also knowing the man, I get something different out of it, versus if I were listening to it without knowing his backstory. In a sense i think the crazyness that makes his backstory so appealing makes it harder for me to listen to the music with an unbiased lense.
Quarter 3 Post 5 (2017/2018) - Russian Romantic Music and Tchaikovsky Russian Romantic Music:
1) In what ways was the work of the Russian Five different than that of European composers?
For one thing, most had little official training and were not fully composers (they had other jobs). Most of them were also from very rich and aristocratic families.
2) What was the role of nationalism in the work of the Russian Five?
Nationalist music was a form of rebelling against the Russian tradition and fighting for freedom.
3) What is the role of folk music in nationalist music?
It was the basis of the nationalist music. The definition of nationalist music was consciously used folk music.
4) Would you rather have been a composer working in Europe or in Russia at this time? Explain your choice.
I would rather have been a composer working in Europe because one could be more independent. Russian artists (of all kinds) often had to be connected to the state.
5) How do you feel about the Russian Five's opinion on European music conservatories?
I like their idea about not following traditional rules when it came to composing music. On the other hand, I don’t really understand why they and the conservatories hated each other.
6) What are your thoughts on Rimsky-Korsakov's decision to teach at a conservatory? What are your thoughts about the rest of the Five's reaction?
I think that him teaching at a conservatory is fine. It brought new music to the conservatory. I do not like how the Five fell apart when some of their members taught at conservatories. I don’t see that as selling out.
Tchaikovsky:
1) How did Tchaikovsky's musical training and experience differ from that of the Mighty Five?
He was a conservatory musician.
2) Discuss Tchaikovsky's musical strengths and weaknesses.
He had a great ability to compose melodies. He was not good at conducting.
3) How did Tchaikovsky's neuroses and anxiety affect his work?
He was a hypochondriac and nervous. He also tried to kill himself and had a marriage that fell apart. This probably hindered his abilities for obvious reasons.
4) If Tchaikovsky felt comfortable to be publicly gay in the time and place in which he lived, how do you think his life and music would have been different?
His music would probably have been lighter and he probably would have lived a much better life.
5) Discuss the role of Nadezdha von Meck in the musical development of Tchaikovsky.
She provided him with financial support which allows him to resign from the conservatory and to buy a country house. It also allowed him to focus on making his music.
6) If you had a patroness like Nadezdha von Meck who wanted to give you money to concentrate on your passions, what would you devote your time and energy to?
I would probably devote my time and energy to writing, composing, and performing music, reading books of all kinds, studying various histories, and many other interests of mine.
7) How does Serenade for Strings fit into your understanding of Tchaikovsky and Russian music in general?
It fits with Tchaikovsky because it is a dark, emotive piece. It fits with Russian music because of this same reason.
